fennek
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 591
Location: London/Tartu
Posted: 23 Sep 2007 08:59 am Post subject:
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islam.pri.ee wrote:
Ja samuti: „Ta on saatnud sulle selle Raamatu ja Tarkuse ja õpetanud sind selles, mida sa ei teadnud. Jumala armulikkus on alati olnud suur.” (4:113) See „Raamat“ on Koraan ja see „Tarkus“ (hikma) on Sunna. Need saadeti ilmutuse (wahy) ja inspiratsioonina (ilham).
“Ha Mim. And the Book of Clarity <Kitaab al-Mubeen>. We sent it down during a blessed night: for We wish to warn. In that is made distinct EVERY affair of WISDOM” (44:1-4)
“And is it NOT ENOUGH for them that We have sent down <Anzalna> to you the Book, which is Recited <Yutla> to them? Verily, in it is Mercy and Reminder <Dhikr> to those who believe” (29:51)
“This is what We rehearse <natluhu> to you of the Ayaat and the Reminder of Wisdom <al-Dhikr al-Hakeem>” (3:58)
Ylaltoodud varssidest voib julgelt jareldada, et
1. Kitaab al-Mubeen - selges Raamatus on TEHTUD SELGEKS Tarkuse iga tahk (Seega ei saa vaita, nagu Hikma't e tarkust on valjaspool Koraani eksisteerivatest hadithitest vaja noppida )
2. Kas sellest ei piisa, et neile saadeti alla Raamat, mida retsiteeritekse? Usklikele on selles halastus ja meeldetuletus. (valistab igasuguste muude kirjutiste vajalikkuse peale Koraani)
3. Koraani varsse ja tarkuse meeldetuletust retsiteeritakse
(haditheid teatavasti ei retsiteerita nagu Koraani. Kujutage ette, et prohvet oleks retsiteerinud haditheid endast a la prohvet urineeris tana pystiasendis, pyhkis tagumikku vasaku kaega, aga eile urineeris kykakil...)
islam.pri.ee lehel toodud vaited, nagu sunna oleks islami seadusandluse teine allikas (Koraan on teatavasti esimene), on seega Koraaniga vastuolus kuna Koraani enda jargi on Koraan ise Tarkus.
Kas teile sellest ei piisa, et saadeti alla Raamat retsiteerimiseks?
Yks naide ka illustreerimaks kuidas Koraan ise Tarkust edasi annab:
“These are of the Wisdom <al-Hikmati>, which your Lord has revealed to you. Take not, with Allah, another object of Worship, lest you should be thrown into hell, blameworthy and rejected” (17:39).
(umbkaudne eestikeelne tolge: need on Tarkusest, mille teie Isand on teile avalikustanud: arge votke Jumala korvale teist ylistamisobjekti, voi teid visatakse porgusse syydlase ja eemaletougatuna.)
islam.pri.ee wrote:
Sunna on Koraani selgitus ja seletus. Prohvet (saws) seletas detailselt oma sõnade, tegude ja nõusolekutega või teiste inimeste tegude kaudu, mis on Raamatus üldisemas mõistes määratud. Tal oli kombeks kõike kolm korda üle korrata, et kõik saaksid täpselt aru.
See pisike loiguke on vastuolus jargmiste Koraanivarssidega:
"And certainly We have repeated for humankind, in this Quran, every kind of example, but the majority of humankind do not consent to aught but denying." (17:89)
“We have put forth for humans, in this Qur’an, every kind of example so that they may remember” (Qur’an 39:27).
neist kahest varsist loeme valja, et
4. Koraanis on igat liiki naiteid, et inimesed voiksid meeles pidada
5. Koraanis on igat liiki naiteid KORRATUD, ent enamus inimkonnast EITAB seda.
"And We have revealed the Book to you which has the clear explanation of everything <wa nazzalna_ 'alaikal kita_ba tibya_nal likulli shai'iw>, and a guidance and mercy and good news for those who submit." (16:89)
6. Jumal on ilmutanud Raamatu, milles on SELGED selgitused KOIGE KOHTA ja juhatus ja halastus ja head uudised neile, kes alluvad.
“A Qur’an in Arabic, without any crookedness in order that they may become more conscious.” (Qur’an 39:28).
7. Araabiakeelne Koraan on ilma koverusteta, et inimesed saaksid teadlikumaks (ilma koverusteta tahendab minu jaoks seda, et asi on otse ja selgelt valja oeldud, ilma keerutamisteta)
“Thus do We make the revelations detailed for a people who reflect <nufaSSilu-l-’aayaati li qawmin yatafakkaruuna>” (10:24)
“Thus do We make the revelations detailed for a people who use their reason <kadhaalika nufaSSilu ’aayaati li qawmin yaqiluuna>” (30:28)
8. need ilmutused on detailsed inimestele, kes kasutavad oma moistust
9. need ilmutused on detailsed inimestele, kes motisklevad
“By the Evidence of the Book that makes things clear <kitaab il Mubeen>. Surely We have made it an Arabic Qur’an that you use your reason” (43:2-3)
“By the evidence of the Book that makes things clear <Kitaab il Mubeen>” (44:2)
“We have made the revelations clear to you, if you will use your reason <qad bayyannaa lakumu-l-’aayaati ’in kuntum taqiluuna>” (3:118)
10. Koraan on raamat, mis teeb asjad selgeks kui oma moistust kasutad
“Shall I then seek a Ruler other than Allah? When He it is Who has revealed to you the Book (which is) distinctly detailed <al-kitaaba mufaSSalan>” (6:114)
11. Kas otsite valitsejat/kohtunikku peale Jumala, kui Tema on ilmutanud teile Raamatu, mis on detailideni yksikasjalik?
islam.pri.ee wrote:
Siia alla kuuluvad näiteks rakade arv igas palves, nende ajad, zakati põhimõtted ja mille pealt on maksu vaja maksta, nagu ka paastumise ja had¾i ning umra riitused ja palju muud.
Sunna seletab meile seda, mida ei ole mainitud Raamatus; kõike, mis puudutab erinevaid tehinguid, viisakust, moraalseid omadusi ja voorusi, mis inimeste elu reguleerivad. See on antud edasi Prohveti (SAWS) poolt, keda Jumal käsib meil jäljendada.
Sunna seletab asju, mida pole Raamatus? Raamatus, mis on detailideni yksikasjalik (vt punkt 11.), mis teeb asjad selgeks kui oma moistust kasutad(10, 9,8), milles on selged selgitused KOIGE kohta (6.), kusjuures koiki naiteid on korratud (5, 4). Kas sellest raamatust ei piisa? (2.)
Kas toesti peale koike seda toendusmaterjali julgeb keegi vaita, et prohvet seletas midagi juurde raamatule, milles juba on koik olemas? See tekitab ju ilmse vastuolu, kuna "sunna" jargimine eeldab et me usuksime, nagu oleksid moned naited ja selgitused Koraanist valja jaetud!
islam.pri.ee wrote:
Oma raamatus nõuab Jumal oma prohveti (saws) Sunna järgimist. See on kohustus ja selleta ei ole tõene kellegi usk.
Millise prohveti? Kas ainult Muhammadi voi teiste prohvetite ka?
“Certainly you have in the Messenger of Allah an excellent exemplar <uswatun husnatun> for him who hopes in Allah and the latter day and remembers Allah much” (Qur'an 33:21).
Indeed, there is for you an excellent example <uswatun husnatun> in Ibrahim and those with him…” (60:4)
Say: ‘Allah speaks the Truth: follow the way of Ibrahim, the sane in faith; he was not of the Pagans.’” (3:95)
“Surely Ibrahim was an exemplar, obedient to Allah, upright, and he was not of the polytheists. He showed his gratitude for the favors of Allah, who chose him, and guided him to a Straight Way. And We gave him Good in this world, and he will be, in the Hereafter, in the ranks of the Righteous. So We have taught you the inspiration, ‘Follow the ways of Ibrahim the True in Faith, and he joined not gods with Allah.’” (16:120-123)
Aga rahvas polnud ju rahul sellega, et prohvet neile ainult Koraani toi. Nad noudsid, et ta muudaks seda, lisaks sinna oma opetusi, millest prohvet kategooriliselt keeldus:
“But when Our Clear Ayaat are recited to them, those who rest not their hopes in meeting with Us, say ‘Bring us a Qur’an other than this, or change this’. Say: ‘It is not for me, of my own accord, to change it. I follow naught but what is revealed to me; surely I fear, if I disobey my Sustainer, the punishment of a mighty day’.” (10:15)
“Allah is witness between you and me; and this Quran has been revealed to me that with it I may warn you and whomsoever it reaches.” (6:19)
We know best what they say, and you are not one to compel them; therefore remind him by means of the Quran who fears My Promise.” (50:45)
ta mitte ei lisanud oma sonu sinna selgitamaks, vaid Koraani enda sonu retsiteeris rahvale, kui neil kysimusi oli!
“I am commanded only that I should serve the Sustainer of this city, Who has made it sacred, and His are all things; and I am commanded that I should be of those who submit; And that I should recite the Quran. Therefore whoever goes aright, he goes aright for his own soul, and whoever goes ' astray, then say: I am only one of the warners.” (27:91-22)
“Surely We have revealed the Book to you with the truth that you may judge between people by means of that which Allah has shown you; and be not an advocate on behalf of the treacherous.” (4:105)
“And We have revealed to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is before it of the Book and a guardian over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has revealed, and do not follow their low desires (to turn away) from the truth that has come to you;” (5:48)
kohut tuleb moista Koraaniga. Toe ja vale, lubatu ja keelatu yle tuleb otsustada Koraani abil.
Viimselpaeval kaebavad need, kes ei votnud eluajal kuulda hoiatusi:
“And the day when the unjust one shall bite his hands saying: O! Would that I had taken a way with the Messenger” (25:27)
“O woe is me! Would that I had not taken such a one for a friend ! Certainly he led me astray from the reminder<dhikr> after it had come to me; and the Shaitaan fails to aid man.” (25:28-29)
“And the Messenger will say: O my Lord! Surely my people have neglected this Quran.” (25:30)
“Likewise did We make for every Prophet an enemy,- evil ones among men and Jinns, inspiring each other with flowery discourses by way of deception. If your Lord had so planned, they would not have done it: so leave them and their inventions alone.” (6:112)
“See how We repeat the verses that they may understand.” (6:65)
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fennek
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 591
Location: London/Tartu
Posted: 26 Sep 2007 08:12 am Post subject:
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sarah, kui kunagi viitsid, siis palun vasta kysimusele:
sa vaitsid et sunna tuleneb otseselt Koraanist ja on sama mis koraan.
miks on islam.pri.ee lehel kirjas, et see on sharia TEINE allikas? jarelikult on need siiski kaks vaga erinevat asja!
5:48
Then we revealed to you this scripture, truthfully, confirming previous scriptures, and superseding them. You shall rule among them in accordance with GOD's revelations, and do not follow their wishes if they differ from the truth that came to you. For each of you, we have decreed laws and different rites. Had GOD willed, He could have made you one congregation. But He thus puts you to the test through the revelations He has given each of you. You shall compete in righteousness. To GOD is your final destiny - all of you - then He will inform you of everything you had disputed.
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Sarah
Guest
Posted: 03 Oct 2007 04:40 pm Post subject:
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Ma juba seletasin ju...
Sunna on Koraani tolgendus, prohveti poolt lahtiseletatud kasud ja keelud, mis tulenevad Koraanist.
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fennek
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 591
Location: London/Tartu
Posted: 03 Oct 2007 08:37 pm Post subject:
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Sel juhul palun vasta jargmistele kysimustele:
osa sunnast on naiteks apostaatide tapmine. See on minuteada otseselt Koraaniga vastuolus, kuna Koraanis on kirjas et "there is no compulsion in religion".. Milliseid Koraani varsse selgitab kask tappa usust taganejad?
osa sunnast on abielurikkujate tapmine. Millist Koraanivarssi see seletab lahti?
Pealeht 
Teis Aug 26, 2008 6:43 pm