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http://rahu.myfreeforum.org/pealeht.html rohkem kahjuks pole
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tarmo
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 96
Posted: 10 Oct 2007 05:41 am Post subject:
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sel lehel vasakul olevatest artiklitest kõik lingid ei tööta. täpsemalt huvitab "Inimene, hing, vaim, saatan". kas see arikkel on ka kadunud või on see veel leitav?
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fennek
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 591
Location: London/Tartu
Posted: 10 Oct 2007 08:59 am Post subject:
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http://free-minds.org/articles/science/human.htm see on link inglisekeelsele artiklile sel teemal. eestikeelset ei paista praegu jah kusagil.. vaatan, akki on mul selle eestikeelne koopia veel alles kusagil.
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tarmo
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 96
Posted: 10 Oct 2007 09:22 am Post subject:
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fennek wrote:
http://free-minds.org/articles/science/human.htm see on link inglisekeelsele artiklile sel teemal. eestikeelset ei paista praegu jah kusagil.. vaatan, akki on mul selle eestikeelne koopia veel alles kusagil.
selles artiklis tuleb suht tühja koha pealt järsku selline mõte:
Some unfortunate news about the 'Rouh': It will NEVER approach you and save the day. for example, you are struggling to understand something. If you don't ask GOD for help, it won't go; "hey, here is the answer!" no, you have to approach it. Also, it will always be LITERAL. you will have to be specific of what you are asking. Note, you don't have to say this out loud. You can just think of it - because many times, humans have hard time expressing what exactly they want to ask. With the spirit of god, you don't have to worry about this - as long as you get the intention of asking, the spirit will know the question...as much as you wanted to ask and that ALONE (though it knows all the questions you know - it is not going to answer anything you did not ask).
Kõik muu artikli kirjutaja tekst on saanud aluse mõnest Koraani värsist. Selles lõigus sisalduva teooria kohta värsid puuduvad...
Või teab keegi värsse selle jutu kinnituseks?
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fennek
Joined: 20 May 2007
Posts: 591
Location: London/Tartu
Posted: 10 Oct 2007 10:20 am Post subject:
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Minu arusaamine on hetkel selline:
Selleks aga et Jumala kaest mingit infot saada, tuleb Tema kaest kysida, paluda:
"When My servants ask you about Me, I am always near. I answer their prayers WHEN they pray to Me. The people shall respond to Me and believe in Me, in order to be guided." (2:186)
Vaata ka selle varsi sonastust, kus Jumal ytleb: Ma vastan nende palvetele SIIS KUI nad palvetavad Minu poole. Samas kui saatan on oelnud et tema tuleb ise nii eest kui tagant , vasakult kui paremalt:
(Satan said,) "I will come to them from before them, and from behind them, and from their right, and from their left, and You will find most of them un-appreciative." [7:17]
He (Satan) said, "My Lord, since You have willed that I go astray, I will surely entice them on earth; I will send them all astray. Except those among Your worshipers who are devoted absolutely to You alone." He (God) said, "This is a law that is inviolable: you have no power over my servants; you only have power over the strayers who follow you." [15:39-42]
Thus, We have given each prophet enemies, human and jinn's devils, who inspire to each other fancy sayings to deceive. Had your Lord willed, they would not have done it, so disregard them and what they fabricate [6:112]
Instead he instructs you with evil and sin and that you say about God what you have no knowledge of. [2:169]
Oli ka selline varss, kus Jumal oli oelnud et kui Ta oleks tahtnud et koik inimesed usuksid Temasse, siis nii oleks syndinud. Seega koige selle pohjal jareldan ka mina et Jumal ei suru ennast peale. Kui sa ei kysi Temalt, siis Tema ei tule sulle vastuseid pakkuma. Saatan aga kyll, kuna tema stiil on ise ennast peale suruda.. Minuarust on see taiesti loogiline. Voi mida sa nende varsside valguses asjast arvad?
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tarmo
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 96
Posted: 10 Oct 2007 02:44 pm Post subject:
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tänud,
eks ta mõistlik tundub küll sedasi a mind just huvitas, et kust see võetud on.
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tarmo
Joined: 11 Jun 2007
Posts: 96
Posted: 25 Oct 2007 06:35 pm Post subject:
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kirjutasin küll sellise vastuse aga tegelikult pole siiani see asi väga mõistlik minu jaoks tundunud.
Just seda pean silmas, et
It will NEVER approach you and save the day. for example, you are struggling to understand something. If you don't ask GOD for help, it won't go; "hey, here is the answer!" no, you have to approach it.
ja veel selline lause? - Also, it will always be LITERAL.
Kui inimene on ennast allutanud Jumala tahtmisele ja püüab ka muus osas võimalikult kuulekas Tema seadustele olla, siis sünnib selle inimese elus Jumala tahtmine. Siis ju Jumal läheneb ise inimesele, juhatab teda.
God guides who He wishes. Ei ole, et God guides those who asks. vms
Seega on ka mingi info saamine / mitte saamine sõltuvuses ennekõike Jumala tahtest, mitte sellest, et kas ma sõnastan midagi küsimuseks või ma seda ei tee.
Loomulikult on igal tõsiusklikul Jumal koguaeg meeles ja ma arvan, et selles ongi selle asja võti. certainly the remembrance of God is the greatest.
Mitte aga selles, et sa ilmtingimata pead küsimuse küsimuseks sõnastama.
Nagu öeldud, Ta teab niigi, mis sa mõtled ja arvad ning ma ei näe põhjust, miks Ta ei peaks andma vajalikku infot, mida küsitud ei ole.
Mõtte võib kokku võtta ka sellise loogikaga, et kuna sa saad Jumalalt ka infot, mida sa ei ole küsinud (paljusi asju ei oskagi küsida), siis saab sellest järeldada, et ei pea küsimust sõnastama.
muuseas Fennek, sinu poolt toodud kirjakohad ei kaitse ikkagi seda mõtet.
fennek wrote:
Minu arusaamine on hetkel selline:
Selleks aga et Jumala kaest mingit infot saada, tuleb Tema kaest kysida, paluda:
"When My servants ask you about Me, I am always near. I answer their prayers WHEN they pray to Me. The people shall respond to Me and believe in Me, in order to be guided." (2:186)
WHEN näitab aega, kui oleks tegemist olnud IF ga, siis saaks väita seda, mida sa väidad.
Teised kirjakohad räägivad millestki muust.
Pealeht 
Teis Aug 26, 2008 7:42 pm